Alo and De Face #49
(PD) Alo and De Lake on Land.
Copyright ©2018 October 24, 2018
Shan: Alo, I admit that the ancients' words have caught our interest. The other elders and I, we often discuss the words that you and Yan have shown us, and one of the things that we talk about most is how some of the metaphors can mean different things to different people and different cultures. Take for example the idea of 'face'; to most elders, 'face' implies a facial expression, a person's appearance, but within some of the ancients' words it appears that 'face' might have a different meaning.
Alo: Yes... people living in modern cities, often think of 'face' as one's appearance, or facial expression... but, sometimes, the word is also used different... 'save face'... it is a common expression today... however, other cultures, especially the ancients', often place a higher importance on 'face'... the importance includes a deeper, wider, meaning... more information behind the word.
Yan: Shan, Morning Dove... many ancient words are similar... a simple translation, of ancient words, into modern words, loses meaning... dictionaries give modern thoughts, not ancient thoughts...
Alo: Yes...
Shan: Then that helps to explain why some of us have laughed at ourselves for hearing different meanings of words. Like the ancients' words of 'large voice with face', to most of us, we think of the words to imply a man standing on a stage, speaking loudly while expressing a fake expression; the man's voice is fake, his face is fake, he is fake.
Alo: Yes... that is a common thing today... and that is also one of the things that can mislead... were the ancient words written to imply a man observed, or an observation of one's self? Yan and I, we spend much time, asking ourselves, which way did the ancients intend? The intention, it colors the meaning...
Yan: Alo's words, he included a reference to a definition of what 'face' means in the ancient language... in the ancient texts, the word that we translate as 'face', the word can also imply 'color, appearance, countenance, facial appearance', as well as 'feminine beauty'... if the word were translated unmindfully, the translated word would then be right according to dictionaries, but not be correct according to the ancient texts, nor be correct relative to Nature's way.
Alo: Yes... 'Poem say, "Give bosom bright goodness, not large voice with face." Master say, 'Voice face, it for to-use convert people, insignificant also.' Poem say, "Goodness light as-if feathers." 'Feathers similar have relationships.' "Upper heavens it travel, not voice, not odor." 'Very!'' To Yan and I, as well as to De and Jun, the ancient words point at one's own behavior, not another person's behavior...
De: Metaphors... different metaphors, can mean, similar, but... not same... not close...
Alo: Precisely... like the poem's word 'goodness', within dictionaries it can also imply 'morals', and 'ethics'... some people say that the word means 'virtue'... but none of those words have meaning today... modern cultures do not know what the words mean...
Yan: Also seen from outside... not known from inside...
Alo: Very accurate... and that is why we chose 'goodness'... from the inside, the expression of good choices, is good... felt good... clean... bright... light...
Jun: Word for 'bright', also means 'clear'... 'to understand'...
Yan: Jun is correct... makes no sense to say 'admire bosom understand morals'... that is like what outsiders might say... not what ancients would say, and most assuredly not what a quality man would say...
Shan: Aha, yes, that does make sense. So then, the translations are chosen by how an individual with firsthand experience would express the words? The quality man?
Yan: Yes... only sensible way...
Alo: Other words similar... word for 'large', can also mean 'great, venerate, high level', and several others... to outsiders, pompous, hungry... they interpret the words to imply self-glory... 'great', 'venerated', 'high level'... the outsiders have no wish nor thought of themselves becoming good people... they only wish to be venerated by other people...
Yan: Book words... outsiders believe that memorizing the words from their books, somehow makes the people high, great, superior... the people interpret ancients' words similar... outsiders believe that the ancients were also as vain, low, and unlearned as themselves... outsiders cannot grasp what it might mean to 'give bosom bright goodness'... the concept, simply, does not exist for outsiders...
De: Ancients... good people... hear their words good...
Alo: De is right... interpret words by who wrote the words... interpret good ancient words, as good... interpret outsider words, as hunger and vanity...
Morning Dove: Shan, I trust the four to offer words that are mindful, and believed to be close to what is accurate... when I hear their words, I can later reflect on what I heard, and feel good that the words speak of good things... I have also heard words spoken by outsiders, who claimed that the ancients said something else, but when I later reflect on the outsiders' words, I never feel good... the outsiders' words are always bad... always leave me depressed... their words contradict, and have no harmony with Nature's way.
Shan: Aha, then again this is making more sense to me now. If 'goodness light as-if feathers' were phrased in outsiders' words, what would they then say? Something dark I assume.
Alo: Yes, unfortunately... an east man claimed that the words imply 'virtue is light as a hair'... but all of us here, we all know that virtue is nothing of the kind...
Shan: Not even close... actually, weighty.
Alo: Precisely... the ancient words are easy to understand from a firsthand point of view, but from the outsiders' external point of view, the outsiders invent crazy interpretations that simply do not, and cannot, exist within Nature. Nature rules man... man's beliefs cannot rule Nature.
Yan: Also, how each word is chosen, it must also agree with the other words... animal hairs do not easily float high in the sky... feathers do... to speak of 'hairs have relationships like humans', it dirties the poem... as dirty as an animal's hair... white duck feathers are cleaner... it is observable within Nature that feathers easily travel upon the winds... but there, there is the standard... Nature is standard... does not matter what the outsiders claim, Nature still rules.
Alo: And the ancients were smart people... they knew the difference between a hair and a feather...
Shan: But, apparently, the outsiders do not know.
Alo: Agreed, and also, the ancient text, at the end, referenced the poem at the beginning... the idea of weighty virtues, does not agree with floating up to the heavens... narrow hairs, tiny, not wide like feathers of goodness... goodness radiates outwardly, not tiny, not narrow... the outsiders contradict themselves, and cannot hear their own words...
Morning Dove: De showed me a different poem... the word song... it made my heart happy, warm... made my day better... I was more kind to everyone...
Shan: And, not entirely in jest, I assume that the outsiders' translations do not create a similar happiness and warmth for the people who read the outsiders' words?
Yan: Ha! No! And, I have learned, to not speak much of the outsiders' words... careful now, to not say more of their words than is needed... care about other people... care to not harm people's feelings.
Shan: Their words are that bad?
De: Hurt... sorrow...
Jun: Tears of sorrow, where warmth should be...
Yan: To learn of the east way, is only useful to know, to not learn of the east way...
Shan: Then, the story books that the elders have asked about, they will include word songs?
Alo: Yes... ancients wrote their words... bright, light as feathers... flew upon the heavens, landing upon our ears... now, we treasure the ancients' word songs... purpose now, extended... Source's root, extended... future people, feather floats...
De: As one wrote, and then rewrote... so will hear again...