Alo and De Honesty #56
(PD) Alo and De Lake on Land.
Copyright ©2018 November 5, 2018
Alo: Several years ago, an outsider from the east had spoken to a group of people, his intention was to belittle the people... but his words were obviously not true... everyone in the group knew that the outsider was not speaking truth, but, apparently, the outsider sincerely believed that his words were true, because he had been told by his masters to believe the words to be true. One of the individuals within the group, replied, saying that the outsider had spoken an absurdity... the individual pointed to the reality that the outsider's claim could not possibly occur in Nature... others in the group then also joined with replies, further explaining why the outsider's words were obviously not correct. One person in the group, said that the outsider had lied... the outsider replied that he had not lied, because, he had spoken what he believed to be correct. I found that to be interesting... the experience showed me another corner of what is named 'honesty'... a man can say 'rocks float in air', and not lie, if he sincerely believes that rocks float in air... therefore, honesty does not require accuracy of what is true, but, rather, the word 'honesty' is merely a speaking of what an individual believes to be true.
Yan: Perhaps more interesting to me, is that the outsider had what appeared to me, to be such a quick answer... as if he had rehearsed how to reply to people who know more than himself... which, to me, seems to infer that the outsider knew that he was lying...
Alo: Yes, agreed, it does indeed appear that way... interesting point there... but look at ourselves... when we speak what we believe to be true, observe what is felt and chosen of the mind... the direction of flow, the purpose of flow... the direction is outward, to give... the mind, its purpose is to sum as correctly as the mind is able... we already know that we, cannot, nor anyone else, ever be fully correct of any topic... our direction of flow, our intent of purpose, is as if almost fully correct, but... in the background of our minds, we still know that we cannot be fully correct. Again we are brought to the sum, that the only best known way, to speak, correctly, is to not speak at all...
Yan: Not an easy thing... to choose one, is that not also an acceptance of acting without knowing all the facts?
Alo: Indeed so... and here again we are faced with the countless paths of weights, each flowing at different angles... different speeds... extreme good in one path's direction, causes extreme bad in another path's direction... attempting to remedy the extreme bad of inaccurate words, causes an extreme bad of not speaking at all... silence is good, for the purpose of not speaking inaccurately... but, not speaking at all, is bad, because, body health needs communication... needs speech... do good for one, causes harm to another... for me, so far, the only solution remains the same...
De: Chidao...
Alo: Yes...
Yan: Agreed... and, as you were speaking of honesty, my mind had fallen upon thoughts of opposites, of contrasts... dishonesty, it shares similar ingredients, except, for, the mind purposefully choosing to not speak accurately...
Alo: Agreed... and once again we are faced with the problem of human nature... a man, wishing to cheat other people, the man will speak dishonest words, while with the purpose of doing what he believes is correct... to the man, correctness is material gain... the lies, are correct ways to achieve material gain... and I often wonder if any person can choose to do a thing without first believing that the choice is the correct choice...
Yan: Interesting... yes, even people in hospitals, with severe dementia, surely they do sincerely believe that their thoughts are true... I have heard, many times, from many people, that they saw people lose their minds, and begin claiming things that were obviously not true...
Alo: Precisely... and, all of this, that we have spoken of, when we compare our word 'honesty' to an ancient word that is, allegedly, supposed to infer honesty, how then should we interpret the ancient word? East translations, they far too easily insist that their use of the modern word 'honest' has meaning... the translators are as if like the outsider who claimed things that cannot be true... the translators might sincerely believe that their words are true... the translators might not be speaking lies, but, merely, not know enough to know that they do not know what they are saying... like the east man, who did not know the differences of directions... not know difference between north and south also... his translations were, maybe, honest, but, still... very peculiar... and, the inability to know the difference between directions, it is a shared inability by the outsiders... no known outsiders can explain what a direction is... the inability, marks their genre of mind... people, whose mind cannot fathom what a direction is, those people also speak honestly when they describe directions incorrectly... not dementia for an animal to not know directions... not dementia for an outsider to not know directions... just, one of the many differences between different genres of people...
Yan: A difficult choice, to choose how to interpret the translators' words... their words make no sense to us...
Alo: Yes, and more difficult to translate the ancients' words... one quote... 'Oneself honest bright, call it nature, oneself bright honest, call it 'teach-by-example'. Honest then bright, bright then honest'. But we already know that the word 'honest' cannot be an honest word that is true... and, so, do we choose another synonym, that is close, but means something different? 'Oneself sincere bright... sincere then bright, bright then sincere'... the word 'sincere' seems closer to what might be possible, but, the word 'bright' had cultural significance for the ancients... not mean same today... which also means that the use of 'sincere' also changes what 'bright' might mean...
Yan: I remember reading that quote... not easy to gather a full idea of the concept... the ancients' concept surely had a different meaning than what is common today...
Alo: Agreed... the author, he knew... he had also said 'Only heaven below extreme honest, act-as able utmost it nature'... the author, he knew that only Nature is fully honest... he was a wise man...
Yan: Indeed... an ancient culture, today believed to have been primitive, and, yet, still, the writings of the ancients', are still more accurate than any of today's known writings... more accurate than what the east translators know to be true... more accurate than what is taught in government schools as the only true truths...
Jun: Pathological translations...
Yan: Ha! Yes! The play on words, it opens such a huge can of worms... inaccuracies within the global religion, the believers often, and unknowingly, make serious errors of judgement, and their errors are given the name of 'pathological belief'... several symptoms, including claims of great accuracy, fantastic theories contrary to experience, criticisms met by ad hoc excuses, and a few other symptoms, including that the followers of the beliefs eventually stop believing in the belief... within parallels and contrasts, yes, in many ways, the east translations are as pathological... being honest of translating, does not infer accuracy...
Alo: Yes, funny in its own way... and, but, Nature always remains true, Nature does not change, Nature is always honest... cannot stop believing in Nature... Nature itself, is as the only possible escape from pathological beliefs...
De: Nature communicates, without words... Nature creates, without words... Nature's boundaries, stop extremes... Nature's creativity, no boundaries... be chidao... let boundaries be what they are...
Alo: Oh, quite good... yes... precisely...